Thanks for watching this video! Hope you are having a great day :)

Eden, was that the asphalt 8 menu theme at the beginning of the video?

@Saki Aung DJ Gontran - Moby Glitch :)

@DustinEden ah so i was right, thanks for replying

after watching it i'm definitiely having a great day, really interesting video! i thought it would have been a bit more in depth overall about FOV and stuff but it was still awesome

We want an asphalt video now >:)

Other thing is that most modern triple AAA racing games have very bad chase cams. Gran Turismos is unnaturally welded to the car and robs the game of any sensation of speed while Forza and modern NFS games stay too close and dont use any proper fov manipulation or zoom outs and are usually too close to the cars in comparison to NFS Most Wanted 2005 and ProStreet. Both of which have superior sensations of speed on top of better sound work for cars and enviroments(especially prostreet, with sound echoing of barriers and walls woth exhaust sounds and across the track with the music) It seems to be be more of a lost art to make good sounds and sensation of speed for a racing game. All of it hinged on good sound and camera design ok top of the handling(and we nevwr got anything alike Most Wanted 2005 or ProStreet from later nfs games or any other series)

It's also due to the lack of frames back then, and the change of the kind of people who play the game. All of the madness that made older racing games seem fast are now considered annoying by the tryhards. And new games have access to more frames, making them smoother and reducing blur. Racing games now feel very "safe" due to these changes.

@Digital Camaro Sadly...One thing i wish modern games didnt accidentally mirror with modern cars. Another thing that both many older and newer games fail to represent is that most cars especially with manual transmission should feel more aggressive and torquey when accelerating even if they are relatively slow, but stock cars from og Most Wanted to forza feel like they are some bogged down diesel delivery tracks with their rpm behaviour and shift patterns, when they should sound and act like maxed cars, just that they get up to speed slower. I mean take any slower car that has sportier engine and it will make lots of noise and drama being viceral with its power delivery but just will get to 100km/h relatively slowly.(all show no go kind of a deal like Suzuki Cappucino for example, which is fun and lets you ring out the car to all hell withs its high rpm tiny engine, which is really fun) Its something that Grid 1/2, Dirt 3 and NFS Shift done quite well(tho shift has quite awful engine sound, transmissions sound amazing tho especially on deceleration), but other games i played both newer and older(especially gran turismo) make most cars feel lame unless its maxed end game cars. Which ahouls actually feel even more aggresive and erratic especially if its a tuner or a racecar I just wish for a game that would finally have both these aspects perfected, together with very good camerawork and Most Wanted 05 like handling, but noone seems to even try :/

Codemasters were quite close with some of their earlier Dirt(3) and Grid games(especially grid 2), and Dirt Rally games also get sound, sensation of speed and vicerality well, but i woupd love to have that in a small open world(like a city from Blacl Box era NFS games, full of fum corners(instead snoozefest that Forza Horizon open worlds are)with more hints of Most Wanted 05's handling and gameplay)

What I find bizarre on GT case is that, although I love GT4, it is the game that introduced this stiff camera that is used even today, the series didnt had this stiff camera from the beginning. I dont like GT3 but it is one thing that I like about it is that the camera feels way smoother than anything that was released after.

i really dont understand whats going on with NFS, they really should F off with the brake to drift bs and go back to powerslides and car personality, hell, pro street is a disgrace physics-wise and it's an insane amout of fun, why tf do modern arcade racers feel so bland most of the time? The ones that i can think of that do it right are the Wreckfest devs, and the handling still feeels a bit simcade-ish. If burnout came back with something like a revenge 2.0 it would BREAK the market for racing games.

I'd hardly call Art Of Rally's camera "top down" in the traditional sense. It looks and behaves exactly like a chase camera, just with an unusually increased zoom level Additionally, it's incredible how the more traditional chase camera changes the world and allows you to take in so much more of the scenery. The game's absolutely stunning! The first person mod is honestly the change that makes me consider this game, so I hope it continues to improve in functionality and technical ability

Funny, I actually often find bumper or (preferably) cockpit views easier since they don't sway the car, you can actually tell the motion of where the car is going. Maybe not so great for drifting, but if a game implements automatically looking left and right it works perfectly. I actually couldn't get into art of rally precisely because of the camera, if it simply had a closer third person view built-in, or even better, a first person view I'd probably enjoy it more.

Actually, I kinda find myself correcting my car easier on cockpit camera when my car slips. I just know better on how much I need to correcting the car on cockpit / bumper camera compared to third person camera

@M. Raihan Ammar Fachrezi X PPLG 2 / 19 true, it makes it much simpler to understand the direction the car is going than when the car is viewed sideways in third person.

@lucasm Well, the downside is that we can't see our car lol

@M. Raihan Ammar Fachrezi X PPLG 2 / 19 true, that's why sometimes I switch between the two. Although I usually like to be immersed inside the car when doing joy rides in Forza Horizon.

i can understand the bumper cam because you don't have the hood or the dash on the way to see everything perfectly, but i have one particular issue: i don't get the feel for how wide the car is and i often cut too far with that camera and bump into barriers/corners sticking out because of it, so i always use 3rd person cam, far if im using a monitor up close and close if im using a TV

Oh God the Asphalt 8 OST hit me like a truck

same man

Same bro…

same

@night2vyife hi Nightdrive

ngl it's the game that brought me to loving cars today xD

Cameras have so many ways in games to show us something, whether it be during cutscenes or gameplay. Just like you said none of us really bat an eye to it when it means so much to how the game plays or looks.

I always bat an eye and talk about the camera for every new game I play with about 82k words just about the camera alone

I think the Art of rally and circuit super star really deserve a close up camera to enjoy the simple but beautiful environment and cars The again I've never been comfortable with bird eye view (mainly because i can't see what's in front of the car very well, especially the terrain with art of rally) and thinks every game would be better with close up view

For me the problem is you can't use a wheel

I think a 3rd person camera as an extra endgame unlockable would be really cool. Only people who complete the game would have access to it and wouldn’t need pace notes since it’s just a glorified toy.

I think if the devs of art of rally ever considere 3rd person prospective and they don't want to add pace notes they should add blinkers as an indicator for turns kinda like burnout or they can make a racing game based on wangan midnight and Initial d mix type of game

You need to know more than just left and right 🤦🏻

@Christian Taylor now I think about it it would be hard judging corners with just indicators

@K93CJ To make a 3rd person camera work in Art of Rally they could just have little arrow icons appear on screen indicating the type of turn. Some handheld rally games did that and Asphalt Urban GT on the DS for some reason. Would be rather easy to implement by simply putting triggers in front of turns that display the corresponding icon when activated.

Thank you for putting so much effort into your videos. That was really interesting. Didn't expect a developer interview. It was also a really cool idea to combine the player camera topic with art of rally. Never thought about it myself, how much the drop down camera changes gameplay in terms of distance view and sense of speed.

Yep, camera plays big role in gameplay. That's where Turbo Sliders Unlimited shines - it gives you full freedom to customise cam pisition. We're also trying to convince game developer to make an option for host (or even track maker) to force the same camera for all players.

Nice to highlight the importance of camera's in racing games! I'm a game developer too and the amount of time you can put into making a camera feel good is absolutely insane :D

Cameras changes the feel of the game so much, like in Gran Turismo, specifically GTPSP has a weird outside camera where it feels like you are going so slow at all times, then switch to the black cockpit and it suddenly feels 3 times faster. Forza also had a bit of a weird 3rd person, on some cars it centered around near the center of the car, but on some others it's located more on the back making it feels like (to me) you are controlling the car with a leash, I genuinely had problems making simple turns with it

Pretty cool that you got a hold of the dev for an interview. I love and spent way too much time on absolute drift and art of rally. The bird's eye camera used in these games is what gives them their charm, I wouldn't want a chase camera in them.

To make a 3rd person camera work in Art of Rally they could just have little arrow icons appear on screen indicating the type of turn. Some handheld rally games did that and Asphalt Urban GT on the DS for some reason. Would be rather easy to implement by simply putting triggers in front of turns that display the corresponding icon when activated.

I remember there are some games in which camera manipulation on the go it's an essential part of the gameplay. For Art Of Rally it could be something like changing the camera to top side view for unknown, technical parts, and switch to another view for the other parts

I don't know how many people played it, but I also remember the game called Ignition. It was a pretty cool arcade top-down racing game with splitscreen, we used to play it a lot. The tracks were pretty short, but you still had to learn them, because you couldn't see what's in front of you or react fast enough. But the game was fun (it's still available on Steam, despite its age. Requires some tinkering, if you want to run the Windows version, instead of DOS). UPD: Just remembered, it also had a cheat to change the camera

8:28 that reason is the same as the top down camera showing you more of the road ahead as you go faster, the mod forgot to disable that feature

I personally really like Bird Eye/Top Down/Isometric view. It gives character and memorable scenes. Bumper Cameras I'd only use in games which need highly precise inputs, like Trackmania, or ones where Third-Person is god awful, like in the Granturismo games. Cockpitcameras, if you don't have a wheel or VR/Headtracking obstruct too much view onto the Corners/Apexes, so rarely use them.

To be honest, near top down chase cameras are sometimes offered if drifting is an important part of the game

holy shit what up yoel

@Yoel Quevedo Yooooo!!!!! Second Yoel with Y that I find and again is on YouTube.

It looks so good in 3D! I absolutely love the graphic style in this game and now its shows its true potential! Brilliant! 😊👍

The game has always been 3d

This game rly is an art.

Switching cameras and pointing out nostalgia inducing racing games makes me think about gta2 (top down vehicle combat), carmageddon, xgra, slipstream 5000, quantum redshift, fatal inertia and a few others. The racing and flight combat games that could have indie remakes very much like art of Rally because in their own ways they had somewhat detailed gameplay and could benefit from modern physics models and console 3D rendering power and multiplayer. It's really sad those types of games just aren't made anymore or are really few and far between.

What's interesting to me about racing game cameras is that Virtua Racing, a Sega arcade game from 1992, had 4 camera modes (Fly, Float, Follow, and Cockpit) most of which are still common today under different names. Now I know it wasn't the origin of most of these perspectives (Cockpit and Follow were ubiquitous across the entire genre long before 1992), but I am fairly sure it was the first racing game to enable switching between them in real time. I just find it neat that racing games with adjustable cameras have been using the same system for 30 years straight and counting.

Check out "WRC Powerslide" as well! It was a spin-off from Milestone's WRC series back in PS3 era, and it use exactly Top-Down view complete with the Micro Machine power-ups option which could be turn on/off if you prefer normal rally. Heck, that game was so underrated. Art of Rally maybe brought the camera to screen, but WRC Powerslide was the one who tried it on real life car and real life location.

Amazing game from back in 2013 when games had 'graphics'. When you go from 'Rolling Sun' or 'Influx' to 'Polyball' you know that developers just gave up.

@Chauncey Gardener Even so, it was a decent spin-off. The WRC series itself was actually good in the hand of Milestone.

I was looking into the Chase Cam mod on art of rally recently and I didn't know you made a video about it (with a cool interview with the dev too). Might get it at some point, but yeah even without the mod that game's absolutely fun.

For me top down view in any game usually makes me feel distant and disconnected from the game. Works better for RPGs I think!

Finally some cover ups for my favorite game. Art Of Rally surely a interesting game and you should try it. Can't wait for the update, really curious about which rally location the dev picked for Indonesia.

I used to play Street Racer , a game on the Sega Saturn back in the late 90's , and there was an option to play as top down view , and it was the weirdest experience :D But I got to like it somehow :D the camera was completely still and you had to race the track in a far view perspective your pixeled car somehow :D , dodging holes and dynamites and opponent's punches .. not to mention the difficulty increased driving with a still camera and a moving 360° car

Wish we had the chase camera natively, I love that camera perspective.

Yeah it's the only reason i stopped playing that game

I totally agree that camera has a lot of affect on a gameplay, currently i'm playing NFS:Pro Street with Aero's Camera mod and let me tell ya it feels like i'm playing totally diffrent game which is 1000 times better than the original, also 5 moths ago when i was playing Skyrim i installed Static Camera mod (aka Camera from behind like in old 3rd person games) on it and felt so confortable than the original which in my opinion isn't very good, a year ago i've installed Swarm Director 2 mod for Alien Swarm and 3rd person perspective in that mod makes you feel like you're playing Dead Space like game, also playing games like CS:GO , TF2, L4D, L4D2 feel very right.

Great vid - that chase cam is awesome and even if it's not great for getting leaderboard times it certainly would be fun to play around with.

"You can't do good content on racing games" - some German kid 4 years ago DustinEating now: I'm about to end this mans whole career

Who said that to Dustin

@JuiceyBeverage joe

I love Art Of Rally, it's an amazing game and everyone should play it but we need an official 3rd person cam. I know it's a rally game but pacenote are not that important. I play dirt rally and wrc without copilote voice and that doesn't bother me at all. It's a fun game it's not esport ready so it doesn't matter if you don't do world record on a stage, so at least let me enjoy the game as I want it

im currently playing midnight club and i just realized how much the camera affects the gameplay on the motorcycle if you "tuck" its harder to see because you are getting better aerodynamics just like real life

As a game developer makking a racing game, i've spent an ungodly amount of time on the camera. To the point that i've ended up putting in ALL of the camera styles from the major racing titles. (The cameras modifiable to do this)

You forgot one camera type, that there are a niche group of people use, the roof camera, us drifters really like that camera, since it has a greater overview of the car, this camera is mostly seen in Asseto Corsa.

One of the drawbacks from Forza games is the camera not giving enough sense of speed. Can't tell if I'm going 60 or 120.

Cockpit camera is the only way to play with a wheel for me. Roof cam is the best way to play on controller while carrying about being competitive, as it gives you best compromise between "natural feel", awareness of near environment and perspective being "fixed to the car", giving you full awereness of what's the car doing. Chase cam is what I use most of the time, as it is my "go to" for casual fun. However I hate most of chase cams. I hate aggressive close ups during braking that are all the rage now and I hate Gran Turismo chase cams even more. TBH awful chase cam was one of the reasons I only got into GT4 on emulator after finding way to "fix" stiffness of the camera. About art of rally... Oh god, I'd love to play it with roof/hood cam.

Yeah, actually i had in wishlist this game for a very long time, it came out in 2021 i think but i had it from late 2020! but still i didn't get to play it yet just by watching the trailer the game felt smooth and really cool, you know indie game!

This explains why the Dvalin boss fight in Genshin was the most frustrating because the camera positioning was awful!

Tbh in this day and age not having a cockpit camera in all modern racing games is essential

The top down camera makes WRC II Extreme a bit more unique

Rallisport Challenge 2 is an underrated game that needs attention imo

there's a second one?!

@DARKNOS yes. an xbox original exclusive (from what i know). played it for hours when i still had one.

@Juan G. Kontigo that explains since I never found for PC

@DARKNOS RSC2 improved on RSC by a large margin. More of everything. Faster. Improved graphics. If you can get your hands on a copy, you won't regret it.

@Cameron A I only got PC

I'd love to see a hood cam for the game.

How come people say they can judge corners better in bumper/hood cam but I'm the opposite? Whenever I switch from close to hood I start bumping into walls. The only exception I found was Ridge Racer 3D's bumper cam. Maybe it's the wider tracks.

plenty of old racing games had cockpit cameras, but as time went on it was discarded. later on those reappeared again. For example, NFS 3 had cockpit camera and NFS Underground did not.

To me the original camera breaks the gameplay. It feels awkward, even after adjusting the settings many times. The perspective many times doesn't let me know if I'm going up or down, the size of upcoming jumps and just general vehicle feel.

i was on the stream when you were playing this mod for art of rally (i was the One that sent all the Sevens After you came back from bathroom and gave me the middle finger XD) actually unique and interesting video idea, i'm glad that i discovered about you, keep It up!

NFS Hot Pursuit 2 has a camera angle like the one in Art of Rally. Also I should get that game. I do have Absolute Drift though, it's pretty neat.

Hi, i want to share you something that you can do in some of your videos in the future. Can you make a video about Acclaim's version of Juiced? I find it rather interesting, it has plenty of differences with the THQ version and i also found interesting to document it's development through his story. Tell me what you think.

What a sweet concept for a video! Subscriber gained.

Grand Theft Auto 2 was my first top down experience and probably a lot of other peoples as well.

Some may look much into their cameras. What surprises me is, again Forza, I know, but it's the franchise I play the most atm, that they haven't done ANY change about the cockpit view or making it possible for us to adjust FOV. Just pick ANY Koenigsegg, place yourself in cockpit view. Good luck seeing ANYTHING whenever there's any elevation changes... 🤦 Why can't they just give us a rear view mirror disregarding view choice as well... 🤯 Or at least have it as an option to activate/deactivate in pause menu settings somewhere(HUD for an example)...🤷 Would make racing so much easier rather than wanting some Silicon Valley PC, with 50 screens attached to it, taking up a whole room by itself just to see around us... 🥴🙃🤡 /DBB

Couldn't the just have an arrow for pace notes instead with colour change and numbers to show turn difficulty?

you dont have a larger overview of a track from topdown perspective, thats why its so awkward and delegated to hyperarcade and/or slower games. the only cases where it works, is where its just chase camera, but zoomed out.

Cockpit view in VR and bumper cam on a normal/flat screen for sims. And chase cam for arcade style games like NFS, The Crew, Forza, etc...

I personally hated art of rally because of it's camera. If this means I can now do third person I think I'll give it another go

Awesome video Eden!

Pacenotes this and that. if its just an option its not like you have to use it, im sure there are plenty of use that would enjoy the camera angle regardless of competitiveness

Need for speed carbon has pacenote when drafting and I think drfting. A simple image can tell a lot when the person knows what it means

Let's not forget the drift camera in Underground 1&2, it's what made drifting easier compared to the regular chase camera.

Underrated channel, love the video

as an indonesian hearing the new update is going to be a new map in indonesia makes me wanna play this game so bad!!!

I mostly dislike bird eye view, especially isometric perspective (that is why I never liked Micro Machines), but Art of Rally I really liked, alongside GTA Chinatown Wars, which has a camera very similar to it. This camera allows better spatial awareness that bird eye provides but it doesnt screw up the position and direction awareness as isometric cameras tend to do.

The Japanese map must look fabulous in this camera

I hate top down games the camera always was too me a way of saying this game is of low quality, but this game has done a really good job with the car physics and camera

I don't enjoy interior camera too much because of the FOV and the FEEL OF SPEED. An example is ETS2 When going 80Km/h i Feel like im going 30Km/h. IT feels just too slow.

Mirco machines is a certified hood classic

I personally hate top down views but it is still valuable

Getting flashbacks to barrel-rolling through a rocket launch site in a DS Survolt. If you know, you know.

yes the first song in this video took me right back

My computer is not that powerfull, so i have to run the game in very low graphics for it to be smooth, bu that is something i LOVE in Art of Rally, the graphic is simple, so i loses nothing of it's essence :D

gunna end up buying that game for sure

the most dislike thing about the car cams is when you go faster enough like prostreet for example, your camera zooms very far away makes it destroys the vision

That is called speed effect.Imagine going more than 300mph and you feel like you’re going like 60mph…

I kinda wish there was an in-between. Not quite as far, not quite a chase cam. More like a drone pilot without insurance cam.

I wished there was a 3rd person view for MotorStorm RC ☹️

man actually used an asphalt 8 menu ost. and the best one at that

Art of Rally is on Xbox Game pass. If you have it, please try the game. It is so very good.

Eden you do edit kurus videos right? What's the timer for?

I'm pretty hyped for the update

Speaking of birds-eye view racing game, anyone remembers Rush Hour for PS1?

I knew a turtle holds my project's in-game cameras... _I knew it!_

Top down (like in the thumbnail) will always remind me of that drifting game

Boy! You made it into a Kotaku article.

Heres two car games i find fun with top down view 1:smash bandits by hutch 2 smash cops heat also by hutch Thats all

the asphalt 8 music do be really bringing some nostalgia

15:32 The map of my country for next update? Man I'm happy to hear that (even though I'm not played the game)

overproud ajg

@RaWR aowkwok

Go play the game

@WiBS0N Mau sih, tapi nggak punya PC. Laptop juga kentang

@M. Raihan Ammar Fachrezi X PPLG 2 / 19 how bad is it. I don't think it's resource intensive

Who do I have to bribe to do this for a game called Cranks and Goggles. It's another top down racing game, sort of obscure ... and I wish to fuck it had a close third-person camera

I'm sure Forza horizon 4 devs spent hours so I can be frustrated to see how camera going back and forth when you just press handbrake

I hate the camera angle deeply And that camera mod saves it for me

So much nostalgia hearing asphalt8 ost

damn that music its so nostalgic

The driving/flying camera in GTA 5/Online is horrible, I need to keep my thumb on the right stick just to wrestle the camera to stay pointing in the right direction.

- 3rd person camera, my favorite - 1st person camera, it's cool - Top down camera, I hate it - Side scroll camera, Outdated and limits experience

I thought he was gonna say the cinematic cam or thrill cam (driver sf)

Ayy nice to see you got that interview

Weird that you didn't mention Death Rally at all

hood cam for FWD and understeery cars, 3rd person for everything else lol

Nostalgia hit hard @2:46

GT4 Hood Camera easily my favourite racing game camera